The Christian missionaries tend to make the general conclusion that the Qur’an cannot be a text of divine origin because of the unacceptable meanings included in it. Perhaps they are correct in this conclusion and we may be inclined to agree with them due to the following reasons, which are :
- 1. The Qur’an does not say a prophet slept with his daughters.
2. The Qur’an does not say a prophet slept with his neighbour’s wife and plotted to kill him
3. The Qur’an does not say a prophet worshipped the Golden Calf.
4. The Qur’an does not say a prophet changed his religion, worshipped idols and built for them temples.
5. The Qur’an does not say a prophet told lies and that God deceived and destroyed another prophet.
6. The Qur’an does not say David, Solomon and Jesus were originally bastards from the seed of Pharez, son of Judah.
7. The Qur’an does not say the firstborn of the Great Prophet who was the firstborn of God slept with his stepmother.
8. The Qur’an does not say the second son of the same Great Prophet (firstborn of God) slept with his daughter-in-law.
9. The Qur’an does not contain lurid details and explicit pornography involving men of Assyria and whores from Egypt.
10. The Qur’an does not say John the Baptist, who was the greatest Israelite Prophet ever according to Jesus — though the least in the kingdom of God was greater than him ! — failed to recognize his second lord on earth, although this lord followed him and got baptized by him. At least not until he saw the third god descending on this second god as a pigeon.
11. The Qur’an does not say the apostle of this god, Judas Iscariot, who performed many miracles in his name and was among the disciples who were greater than Moses and other Israelite Prophets according to Jesus, delivered his god to the hands of his enemies for 30 pieces.
12. The Qur’an does not say Caiaphas, the high priest — who was a prophet according to John the Baptist — rejected, insulted and made a verdict to kill his god.
For all the above reasons, we conclude that the Qur’an, unlike the Bible, cannot be a text of divine origin. 
Jazak Allah Khair brother Abdullah for the kind words, but I do not deserve such praise. All praise is due to Allah. By the way, I am a brother :-)
Assalammu’alaikum Wr. Wb.,
Thank’s God there is person like islamispeace. I hope there are more people like him or her.
ALHAMDULILLAH, ALLAHU AKBAR, LAA ILLAHA ILALLAH MUHAMMADAR RASULULLAH.
salaam
lol:intresting i didnt know some of the points and the “divine creditability” of bible.yap,if these are the things present in the bible and its still considered to be the word of God[in its present form]than its right that glorious Quran does not full these this “requierment” lol.
jazakallah
No response from Mariyyah ? Oh well.
GOD prohibiting brothers from marrying their biological sisters after He initially allowed it for Abraham and Sarah :
“And yet indeed she is my sister ; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother ; and she became my wife. (Genesis 20:12)”
“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen. (Deuteronomy 27:22)”
It is important to know that in the same book of Genesis, GOD Almighty did Speak directly with Abraham. For instance :
Genesis 12:1 – 3
1 The LORD had said to Abram, “Leave your country, your people and your father’s household and go to the land I will show you.
2 “I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you ; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse ; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”
Yet, GOD never prohibited Abraham from marrying his own biological sister, Sarah !
So, Deuteronomy 27:22 is indeed an abrogation to the previous Law !
Hi Mariyyah,
Any response ?
Hello Marriyah,
I have read through your response and have prepared a counter-response and here it is.
You said the following :
“Firstly I was a bit disappointed with your answer concerning peace in the Qur’an I didn’t expect you to list all but at least a few… I also don’t understand the passage you have given the general message is as I said previous its to other muslim’s and only if asked for forgiveness… is this really peace at all … please explain further.”
To be honest, I am not at all surprised that you found my response to be “disappointing.” You already have a predisposed “understanding” of Islam and the Quran, even though you admit that your “knowledge of the Quran is still young.” This can only mean that you read alot of anti-Islamic material, instead of doing your own research. Anyway, you clearly misunderstood the verses I mentioned. They do not speak of other Muslims, but the unbelievers who waged war against the Muslims. Read the verses again please :
“If thou fearest treachery from ANY group, throw back (their covenant) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms : for Allah loveth not the treacherous.
Let not the UNBELIEVERS think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them).
Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
But if the ENEMY INCLINE TOWARDS PEACE, DO THOU (ALSO) INCLINE TOWARDS PEACE, and trust in Allah : for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
Should they intend to deceive thee,- verily Allah sufficeth thee : He it is That hath strengthened thee with His aid and with (the company of) the Believers;” 5:58 – 62
It does not speak of other Muslims, but the unbelievers who are geared towards using violence against Muslims. It is in this context that the Quran urges the believers to fight back. However, it also says that if the enemy sues for peace, then it is the obligation of the Muslims to also accept peace.
You said :
“Choose not friends from them [unbelievers]. … Take them and kill them wherever ye find them. – 4:89
This act of violence issued by the qur’an fails to include the words ‘if provoked’ but states that because they are of a differing faith they should be killed thus giving the job of god to man. Not very peaceful”
You have misquoted this verse and also out of context, which is disheartening since you have been going on about how brother Hesham Azmy has somehow misquoted the Bible when he wrote the article, even though you have failed to demonstrate how he has done so. You have not followed what you preach. First of all, the verse is not talking about the unbelievers but the hypocrites. You would have known that if you had read the verse in its context. Let me give you the contextual evidence from Surah 4:88 – 90 :
“Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites ? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way ? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
They (the hypocrites) but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them ; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-
Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you : Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).”
The warning is to avoid the hypocrites because of the danger they posed to the Muslims. But again, the Quran affirmed the commitment to peace when peace was possible. Notice that verse 90 says that if the hypocrites are from a group which has a treaty of peace with the Muslim community, then it is incumbent upon the Muslims to honor the truce. Is this not peace ?
You said :
“The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom. – 5:33
Making war I guess is not agreeing with Allah and his Messenger as well as those who as you say persecute muslims, is this fair, does this sound like a book of peace ? ”
The verse cannot be any clearer. It clearly says “making war.” That does not mean not believing in Islam but using physical violence. If they persecute Muslims, the Quran gives the Muslims their God-given right to defend themselves. I cannot understand why Christians feel that these verses are somehow “evil” or “unmerciful.” It seems to me that there is an inherent bias against Islam, and no amount of intellectual reasoning will change that. I hope I am wrong.
You said :
“I am fully aware that the Bible and the Torah both talk about punishments such as these for adulterers and the such but if we look into the new testament the story of the stoning of the woman takes place (John 8 1 – 11) where Jesus states that he who has committed no sin may cast the first stone, therefore saying that these kind of punishments are hypocritical and that no man is able to make that decision. Which is why Christians believe that sinner will be dealt with by God which is why we don’t stone people 4 those sorts of crimes any more…”
I have two problems with your argument. First, the New Testament did not apply here because it did not exist in the time of David. Therefore, your argument is pointless. What they had at the time was the Law of Moses, and that law called for the stoning of the adulterer or adultress as I showed in my previous response. It is irrelevant what the New Testament says in this case. David, as king, was not tasked with upholding the New Testament, but the Old Testament. The New Testament did not come about until much later. He should have been put to death as the law required. Why was he not ? I ask again. Are people of power above the law ?
Second, you evoke John 8:1 – 11 in your argument that the Law of Moses no longer applies to Christians, even though this is irrelevant to the matter at hand. The problem with your argument is archaeological. You see, according to your own Bible (The New International Version):
“((The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53 – 8:11.))”
This is what the NIV says regarding the “Pericope de Adultera.” You can see for yourself here :
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=7&version=31
Archaeological evidence shows that these verses were not added to the Bible until hundreds of years of Jesus (pbuh). One of the most famous New Testament manuscripts attests to the absence of the Pericope from the earliest Christian sources and that manuscript is P66 or Papyrus 66, which has been dated to about 200 CE, making it one of the earliest. You can see pictures of it here :
http://www1.uni-bremen.de/~wie/ww_tc.html
Scroll down a bit and you will see it below “The Sinaiticus Finds of 1975.” Clearly, there is a problem with John 8:1 – 11 and it is therefore not suited for your argument. I have done my research. It seems that you have not done yours.
You said :
“This relates to your question about David and why he wasn’t given the traditional punishment. I am not a theologian so I can only answer you according to my own knowledge and understanding… David was wrong in what he did and his son was killed as a result I think that is worse then any punishment including the original. However your belief that its not true because he did something wrong I don’t understand David was a man not a God and he made mistakes like any one of us, yes he is a prophet and in his mistake and punishment he still gave the message of God as his punishment reinforced moses’ law , ‘thou shalt not commit adultery’.”
Why is David’s son killed for the sins of his father ? Is this your idea of Biblical justice ? In order to punish David, God kills his son ? From your words, it seems as if you are not disturbed by this. I certainly am. Why is an innocent child killed for something he did not do and the real sinner gets off the hook ? Is the Bible really pro-life. I see all these Christians opposing abortion and yet their own scripture talks of infanticide ! It sends shivers down my spine. I mean no offense but this story disturbs me to the core.
You said :
“In response to the question about Lot I apologise for not being clear I believe that Lot and Sodom and Gommorah show the same kind of sin but I don’t understand why you wouldn’t accept the story lot in Christianity is not a Prophet he is a normal man who along with his daughters commited sin. That is the topic here disscussing the above about the prophet sleeping with his daughters, he isn’t a prophet. As I said before I don’t have all the answers, but I don’t c why this story stands out any more we have shown the above is wrong and lot isn’t a key figure in the bible so I cant say I have been taught about him enough to answer these questions.”
First of all, Lot is not a “normal” man. He was visited by angels for God’s sake ! How many people do you know that have been visited by angels who delivered God’s word to them. Lot was the recipient of God’s word. God, in his mercy, sent Lot to reform the people of Sodom and Gamorrah, because He never punishes anyone without sending guidance to them first. The people of Sodom and Gamorrah rejected God’s word and were therefore destroyed. They were given a chance and they blew it. So even if Lot did not make prophecies, he still received God’s word. Therefore, he was not a normal person. God was communicating with him through His angels. He was not a normal man. I am sorry to say that your answers are not sufficient.
You said :
“I have a question though why do you not accept the stories of David being an adulterer because he is a Prophet and therefore wouldnt have commited such a ‘vile’ crime, then why do you believe in Mohammed ? He committed worse crimes then David ever did- he killed innocent people and instructed the killing of the innocent, raped women and instructed the rape of women- ‘taking what the right hand possess’ married a child which today constitutes and paedophilia. Is it not ? And rejected god becoz Gods word was making him unpopular and instead said it was ok to believe in al uzzat and minat If I am wrong plz correct me as I say my knowledge of the qur’an is still young.”
Please give me examples of where the blessed Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) killed innocent people and raped women. This is slander of the worst type, and it is unfortunately quite typical among many Christians, although not all. I can say with full honesty that I have many Christian friends who do not believe that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a murderer and rapist. They know that history says otherwise ; that he was wise, a great leader and a champion of the poor and of women. The Al-Uzza and Al-Manat argument is also false. The so-called “Satanic Verses” myth has been proven to be false. You can read a detailed refutation of this myth here :
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/sverses.html
You said :
“Another question is by stating the the stories of lot and David are wrong are you not going against the teaching of the qur’an.
Sura 5:68 — Say : “O People of the Book ! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah), the Gospel (Injeel), and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.””
Verse 41 of the same surah states the following :
“O Messenger ! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief : (whether it be) among those who say “We believe” with their lips but whose hearts have no faith (the hypocrites); or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. THEY CHANGE THE WORDS from their (right) times and places : they say, “If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!” If any one’s trial is intended by Allah, thou hast no authority in the least for him against Allah. For such — it is not Allah’s will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment. ”
Also, the Quran criticizes the Jews and Christians from diverting from the truth. Surah 5:65 – 66 states :
“If only the People of the Book had believed and been righteous, We should indeed have blotted out their iniquities and admitted them to gardens of bliss.
If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course : but many of them follow a course that is evil. ”
The meaning here is that they did not hold fast to the Torah and the Gospel which were God’s words, but instead altered the Word. So, yes the Quran does honor the Torah and the Gospel but it criticizes the Jews and the Christians for changing God’s words and putting in their own. A perfect example is John 8:1 – 11. Clearly, these verses did not exist in the 2nd century but somehow starting popping up in 3rd and 4th century Bibles.
You said :
“Sura 29:46 Muslims are told by Allah, not to question the authority of the scriptures of the Christians, saying, “And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you ; Our Allah and your Allah is one;”
You don’t do a good job of quoting scripture. The verse, in its entirety states the following :
“And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you ; Our Allah and your Allah is one ; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).”
So you see, it does not forbid Muslims from arguing with Christians. Ibn Kathir wrote that the meaning of this verse is that :
“anyone who wants to find out about religion from them should argue with them in a manner that is better, as this will be more effective. Allah says : (Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair preaching…) (16:125) And Allah said to Musa and Harun when he sent them to Fir‘awn : (And speak to him mildly, perhaps he may accept admonition or fear.) (20:44)”
There is no prohibition from debating and discussing, as long as it is productive. Whether our conversation is productive or not remains to be seen. I am trying to show you the truth, so it is worth it.
You said :
“the scrolls of the ot and nt have been found and authorised as the same now as they were then, they are now in a museum in Jerusalem.”
As I showed above, this is not the case. John 8:1 – 11 are not present in “scrolls of the…NT” along with other verses. If you study the Biblical manuscripts, you will find many discrepancies. I don’t think that you have studied the manuscripts and have not done the appropriate research. You simply accept what you have been told.
Once again, thank you for offering your views. I look forward to your response !
Hi there ‘Islamispeace’
Thank-you for your reply as i am always interested in your opinions and questions. And I will try my best to answer them to high standard…
Firstly I was a bit disappointed with your answer concerning peace in the Qur’an I didn’t expect you to list all but at least a few… I also don’t understand the passage you have given the general message is as I said previous its to other muslim’s and only if asked for forgiveness… is this really peace at all … please explain further.
In my study/interest of the quran I have come across many passages that speak of violence…
Choose not friends from them [unbelievers]. … Take them and kill them wherever ye find them. – 4:89
This act of violence issued by the qur’an fails to include the words ‘if provoked’ but states that because they are of a differing faith they should be killed thus giving the job of god to man. Not very peaceful
The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom. – 5:33
Making war I guess is not agreeing with Allah and his Messenger as well as those who as you say persecute muslims, is this fair, does this sound like a book of peace ?
I am fully aware that the Bible and the Torah both talk about punishments such as these for adulterers and the such but if we look into the new testament the story of the stoning of the woman takes place (John 8 1 – 11) where Jesus states that he who has committed no sin may cast the first stone, therefore saying that these kind of punishments are hypocritical and that no man is able to make that decision. Which is why Christians believe that sinner will be dealt with by God which is why we don’t stone people 4 those sorts of crimes any more…
This relates to your question about David and why he wasn’t given the traditional punishment. I am not a theologian so I can only answer you according to my own knowledge and understanding… David was wrong in what he did and his son was killed as a result I think that is worse then any punishment including the original. However your belief that its not true because he did something wrong I don’t understand David was a man not a God and he made mistakes like any one of us, yes he is a prophet and in his mistake and punishment he still gave the message of God as his punishment reinforced moses’ law , ‘thou shalt not commit adultery’.
In response to the question about Lot I apologise for not being clear I believe that Lot and Sodom and Gommorah show the same kind of sin but I don’t understand why you wouldn’t accept the story lot in Christianity is not a Prophet he is a normal man who along with his daughters commited sin. That is the topic here disscussing the above about the prophet sleeping with his daughters, he isn’t a prophet. As I said before I don’t have all the answers, but I don’t c why this story stands out any more we have shown the above is wrong and lot isn’t a key figure in the bible so I cant say I have been taught about him enough to answer these questions.
I have a question though why do you not accept the stories of David being an adulterer because he is a Prophet and therefore wouldnt have commited such a ‘vile’ crime, then why do you believe in Mohammed ? He committed worse crimes then David ever did- he killed innocent people and instructed the killing of the innocent, raped women and instructed the rape of women- ‘taking what the right hand possess’ married a child which today constitutes and paedophilia. Is it not ? And rejected god becoz Gods word was making him unpopular and instead said it was ok to believe in al uzzat and minat If I am wrong plz correct me as I say my knowledge of the qur’an is still young.
Another question is by stating the the stories of lot and David are wrong are you not going against the teaching of the qur’an.
Sura 5:68 — Say : “O People of the Book ! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah), the Gospel (Injeel), and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.”
Sura 29:46 Muslims are told by Allah, not to question the authority of the scriptures of the Christians, saying, “And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you ; Our Allah and your Allah is one ;
If these are accurate sitations then that would also mean that the divinity of the quran is in question because byu saying the these events didn’t happen including the status of Jesus as son of God is against your own qur’an and your qur’an is against itself, because inb one place it says he wasn’t son of God and in the other he says that u shud listen to the bible which say he is and that these stories doid occur ? And plz don’t say that its just about the ‘real bible and torah’ and not the one we look at because I am aware of that myth, the scrolls of the ot and nt have been found and authorised as the same now as they were then, they are now in a museum in Jerusalem.
I look forward to your response.