The Qur’an Can­not Be A Text of Divine Origin

The Chris­t­ian mis­sion­ar­ies often arrive at the sweep­ing con­clu­sion that the Qur’an can­not be a text of divine ori­gin because of the unac­cept­able mean­ings includ­ed in it. This asser­tion serves as a spring­board into a detailed exam­i­na­tion of the rea­sons cit­ed for ques­tion­ing the Qur’an’s divine nature. Per­haps they are cor­rect in this con­clu­sion and we may be inclined to agree with them due to the fol­low­ing rea­sons, which are :

  1. The Qur’an does not say that a prophet slept with his daugh­ters.1
  2. The Qur’an does not say that a prophet slept with his neigh­bour’s wife and plot­ted to kill him.2
  3. The Qur’an does not say that a prophet wor­shipped the Gold­en Calf.3
  4. The Qur’an does not say that a prophet changed his reli­gion, wor­shipped idols and built for them tem­ples.4
  5. The Qur’an does not say that a prophet told lies and that God deceived and destroyed anoth­er prophet.5
  6. The Qur’an does not say that David, Solomon and Jesus were orig­i­nal­ly bas­tards from the seed of Pharez, son of Judah.6
  7. The Qur’an does not say that the first­born of the Great Prophet who was the first­born of God slept with his step­moth­er.7
  8. The Qur’an does not say that the sec­ond son of the same Great Prophet (first­born of God) slept with his daugh­ter-in-law.6
  9. The Qur’an does not say that a prophet slaugh­tered an entire city and then cir­cum­cised the corpses as a form of vengeance.8
  10. The Qur’an does not con­tain lurid details and explic­it pornog­ra­phy involv­ing men of Assyr­ia and whores from Egypt.9
  11. The Qur’an does not include a sto­ry where a prophet kills 200 men to col­lect their fore­skins as a bridal price.10
  12. In the Qur’an, there is no instance where a group of chil­dren are mauled by bears for mock­ing a prophet.11
  13. The Qur’an does not por­tray a prophet as a man who sac­ri­fices his daugh­ter as a burnt offer­ing to God.12
  14. The Qur’an does not say John the Bap­tist, who was the great­est Israelite Prophet ever accord­ing to Jesus — though the least in the king­dom of God was greater than him — failed to rec­og­nize his sec­ond lord on earth, although this lord fol­lowed him and got bap­tized by him. At least not until he saw the third god descend­ing on this sec­ond god as a pigeon.13
  15. The Qur’an does not say the apos­tle of this god, Judas Iscar­i­ot, who per­formed many mir­a­cles in his name and was among the dis­ci­ples who were greater than Moses and oth­er Israelite Prophets accord­ing to Jesus, deliv­ered his god to the hands of his ene­mies for 30 pieces.14
  16. The Qur’an does not say Caiaphas, the high priest — who was a prophet accord­ing to John the Bap­tist — reject­ed, insult­ed and made a ver­dict to kill his god.15

For all the above rea­sons, we con­clude that the Qur’an, unlike the Bible, can­not be a text of divine origin.

Nota Bene :

This arti­cle delves into the nar­ra­tives of the Bible and con­trasts them with the por­tray­als found in the Qur’an, par­tic­u­lar­ly focus­ing on the absence of cer­tain con­tro­ver­sial sto­ries in the lat­ter. By exam­in­ing the actions and deci­sions attrib­uted to prophets in the Bible — actions that pro­voke eth­i­cal and moral scruti­ny — it rais­es ques­tions about the tex­t’s claim to divine ori­gin. The com­par­i­son aims to illu­mi­nate the dif­fer­ences in how prophet­ic fig­ures and divine mes­sages are depict­ed across these two foun­da­tion­al reli­gious texts.

High­light­ing instances where bib­li­cal nar­ra­tives depict prophets in sce­nar­ios that con­flict with wide­ly held moral and eth­i­cal stan­dards, the arti­cle prompts a reeval­u­a­tion of how divin­i­ty and moral integri­ty are rep­re­sent­ed in sacred scrip­tures. It nav­i­gates through the com­plex land­scape of reli­gious texts, ques­tion­ing the basis upon which these sto­ries are accept­ed as part of a divine mandate.

The intent is to stim­u­late a reflec­tive exam­i­na­tion among read­ers regard­ing the nature of divine inspi­ra­tion and the moral con­sis­ten­cy of the nar­ra­tives with­in reli­gious scrip­tures. By draw­ing atten­tion to these con­trasts, the dis­cus­sion seeks to engage with broad­er themes of eth­i­cal rep­re­sen­ta­tion and the por­tray­al of divin­i­ty in reli­gious lit­er­a­ture, con­tribut­ing to the nuanced under­stand­ing of how sacred texts artic­u­late the prin­ci­ples they espouse.Endmark

  1. Gen­e­sis 19:30 – 38[]
  2. 2 Samuel 11:1 – 27[]
  3. Exo­dus 32:1 – 6[]
  4. 1 Kings 11:1 – 13[]
  5. 1 Kings 13:1 – 30[]
  6. Gen­e­sis 38:12:30[][]
  7. Gen­e­sis 35:22 and 49:3 – 4[]
  8. Gen­e­sis 34[]
  9. Ezekiel 23[]
  10. 1 Samuel 18:27[]
  11. 2 Kings 2:23 – 25[]
  12. Judges 11:30 – 39[]
  13. Matthew 3:13 – 17, Mark 1:9 – 11 and Luke 3:21 – 22[]
  14. Matthew 26:14 – 16, 27:3 – 9, Mark 14:10 – 11, Luke 22:3 – 6 and John 18:1 – 5[]
  15. Matthew 26:57:68, Mark 14:53 – 65, Luke 22:54 – 71 and John 18:12 – 24[]

Comments

52 responses to “The Qur’an Can­not Be A Text of Divine Origin”

  1. islamispeace Avatar
    islamispeace

    Broth­er AlHaidar, thank you for the kind words. I agree with you that Mus­lims must step up and answer the ques­tions raised by non-Mus­lims against Islam. In order to do this, we need to study the issues. Knowl­edge is an indis­pens­able weapon in the face of igno­rance. I dis­agree with you that our reli­gion has been under attack for only the past six years. It has been under attack from the forces of evil since the very begin­ning. Those who oppose the truth have tried to extin­guish it through var­i­ous means : polemics, vio­lence, col­o­niza­tion etc. But Islam will go on, no mat­ter how much the unbe­liev­ers hate it, inshaAllah.

  2. david misango Avatar

    Inter­est­ing dis​cus​sions​.It seems to me that for the Qur’an to be tru­ly divine, one must show” that the Bible is false!Therefore- NO BIBLE, NO QURAN !

  3. AlHaidar Avatar
    AlHaidar

    I also thank god for peo­ple like ISLAMISPEACE, they are foun­tains of knowl­edge, and we must absorb as much as we can from them. Many times Chris­t­ian broth­ers have asked me cer­tain ques­tions to try and con­fuse me. We all need to study like some of the broth­ers and sis­ters on this site so we may give them a prop­er answer. I enjoyed read­ing your respons­es to Mariyyah, and I appre­ci­ate Mariyyah being a mature per­son inter­est­ed in Reli­gion, and will­ing to learn. Mariyyah was obvi­ous­ly mis­in­formed, or pre­ob­a­bly stum­bled on a Anti-islam site. It is sad that there are so many polemics, espe­cial­ly on Islam. Our reli­gion has been under attack ever for the past six years, and will con­tin­ue. We must open the eyes of the peo­ple and let them know the truth about our religion.

    I like to let peo­ple of oth­er faiths smell my fam­i­lies Jug of Zam Zam water. Its been in my Refridger­a­tor for over a year and it still smells like a gar­den of ros­es :) subhanillah

  4. RS Avatar
    RS

    The Qur’an does not say the sec­ond son of the same Great Prophet (first­born of God) slept with his daughter-in-law

    You are right instead the Koran says THe Great­EST” prophet slept with his daugh­ter in law.

    [33:37] Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, Keep your wife and rev­er­ence GOD,” and you hid inside your­self what GOD wished to pro­claim. Thus, you feared the peo­ple, when you were sup­posed to fear only GOD. When Zeid was com­plete­ly through with his wife, we had you mar­ry her, in order to estab­lish the prece­dent that a man may mar­ry the divorced wife of his adopt­ed son. GOD’s com­mands shall be done.

    Waht dif­fer­ence does the Koran have com­pared to the Bible​.You clowns say tht the Bible and the Torah were cor­rupt­ed , hence The Koran was sent down to man. Fine, then if this Koran is the corredt­ed vrsion of the Torah and Bible, it should­n’t con­tain any of the cor­rrup­tions con­tained in both this texts!What cor­rup­tion by the way ? What mis­take or dis­tor­tion in the Bible doess the Koran aim to cor­rect ? That a man can’t sleep with his real son’s wife but it s okay if he sleeps with his Adopt­ed son’s divorced wife.Wat Big dif­fer­ence does it make ? Nothing.

  5. islamispeace Avatar
    islamispeace

    Jazak Allah Khair broth­er Abdul­lah for the kind words, but I do not deserve such praise. All praise is due to Allah. By the way, I am a brother :-)

  6. Abdullah Avatar
    Abdullah

    Assalam­mu’alaikum Wr. Wb.,

    Thank’s God there is per­son like islamis­peace. I hope there are more peo­ple like him or her.

    ALHAMDULILLAH, ALLAHU AKBAR, LAA ILLAHA ILALLAH MUHAMMADAR RASULULLAH.

  7. abdul Avatar
    abdul

    salaam

    lol:intresting i did­nt know some of the points and the divine cred­itabil­i­ty” of bible.yap,if these are the things present in the bible and its still con­sid­ered to be the word of God[in its present form]than its right that glo­ri­ous Quran does not full these this requier­ment” lol.

    jaza­kallah

  8. islamispeace Avatar
    islamispeace

    No response from Mariyyah ? Oh well.

  9. shadowofears Avatar
    shadowofears

    GOD pro­hibit­ing broth­ers from mar­ry­ing their bio­log­i­cal sis­ters after He ini­tial­ly allowed it for Abra­ham and Sarah :

    And yet indeed she is my sis­ter ; she is the daugh­ter of my father, but not the daugh­ter of my moth­er ; and she became my wife. (Gen­e­sis 20:12)”

    Cursed be he that lieth with his sis­ter, the daugh­ter of his father, or the daugh­ter of his moth­er. And all the peo­ple shall say, Amen. (Deuteron­o­my 27:22)”

    It is impor­tant to know that in the same book of Gen­e­sis, GOD Almighty did Speak direct­ly with Abra­ham. For instance :

    Gen­e­sis 12:1 – 3
    1 The LORD had said to Abram, Leave your coun­try, your peo­ple and your father’s house­hold and go to the land I will show you.
    2 I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you ; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.
    3 I will bless those who bless you, and who­ev­er curs­es you I will curse ; and all peo­ples on earth will be blessed through you.”

    Yet, GOD nev­er pro­hib­it­ed Abra­ham from mar­ry­ing his own bio­log­i­cal sis­ter, Sarah !

    So, Deuteron­o­my 27:22 is indeed an abro­ga­tion to the pre­vi­ous Law !

  10. islamispeace Avatar
    islamispeace

    Hi Mariyyah,

    Any response ?

  11. islamispeace Avatar
    islamispeace

    Hel­lo Marriyah,

    I have read through your response and have pre­pared a counter-response and here it is.

    You said the following :

    First­ly I was a bit dis­ap­point­ed with your answer con­cern­ing peace in the Qur’an I didn’t expect you to list all but at least a few… I also don’t under­stand the pas­sage you have giv­en the gen­er­al mes­sage is as I said pre­vi­ous its to oth­er muslim’s and only if asked for for­give­ness… is this real­ly peace at all … please explain further.”

    To be hon­est, I am not at all sur­prised that you found my response to be dis­ap­point­ing.” You already have a pre­dis­posed under­stand­ing” of Islam and the Quran, even though you admit that your knowl­edge of the Quran is still young.” This can only mean that you read alot of anti-Islam­ic mate­r­i­al, instead of doing your own research. Any­way, you clear­ly mis­un­der­stood the vers­es I men­tioned. They do not speak of oth­er Mus­lims, but the unbe­liev­ers who waged war against the Mus­lims. Read the vers­es again please :

    If thou fear­est treach­ery from ANY group, throw back (their covenant) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms : for Allah loveth not the treacherous.
    Let not the UNBELIEVERS think that they can get the bet­ter (of the god­ly): they will nev­er frus­trate (them).
    Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your pow­er, includ­ing steeds of war, to strike ter­ror into (the hearts of) the ene­mies, of Allah and your ene­mies, and oth­ers besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. What­ev­er ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treat­ed unjustly.
    But if the ENEMY INCLINE TOWARDS PEACE, DO THOU (ALSO) INCLINE TOWARDS PEACE, and trust in Allah : for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
    Should they intend to deceive thee,- ver­i­ly Allah suf­ficeth thee : He it is That hath strength­ened thee with His aid and with (the com­pa­ny of) the Believ­ers;” 5:58 – 62

    It does not speak of oth­er Mus­lims, but the unbe­liev­ers who are geared towards using vio­lence against Mus­lims. It is in this con­text that the Quran urges the believ­ers to fight back. How­ev­er, it also says that if the ene­my sues for peace, then it is the oblig­a­tion of the Mus­lims to also accept peace.

    You said :

    Choose not friends from them [unbe­liev­ers]. … Take them and kill them wher­ev­er ye find them. – 4:89

    This act of vio­lence issued by the qur’an fails to include the words if pro­voked’ but states that because they are of a dif­fer­ing faith they should be killed thus giv­ing the job of god to man. Not very peaceful”

    You have mis­quot­ed this verse and also out of con­text, which is dis­heart­en­ing since you have been going on about how broth­er Hes­ham Azmy has some­how mis­quot­ed the Bible when he wrote the arti­cle, even though you have failed to demon­strate how he has done so. You have not fol­lowed what you preach. First of all, the verse is not talk­ing about the unbe­liev­ers but the hyp­ocrites. You would have known that if you had read the verse in its con­text. Let me give you the con­tex­tu­al evi­dence from Surah 4:88 – 90 :

    Why should ye be divid­ed into two par­ties about the Hyp­ocrites ? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way ? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, nev­er shalt thou find the Way.
    They (the hyp­ocrites) but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same foot­ing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is for­bid­den). But if they turn rene­gades, seize them and slay them wher­ev­er ye find them ; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-
    Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restrain­ing them from fight­ing you as well as fight­ing their own peo­ple. If Allah had pleased, He could have giv­en them pow­er over you, and they would have fought you : There­fore if they with­draw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guar­an­tees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).”

    The warn­ing is to avoid the hyp­ocrites because of the dan­ger they posed to the Mus­lims. But again, the Quran affirmed the com­mit­ment to peace when peace was pos­si­ble. Notice that verse 90 says that if the hyp­ocrites are from a group which has a treaty of peace with the Mus­lim com­mu­ni­ty, then it is incum­bent upon the Mus­lims to hon­or the truce. Is this not peace ?

    You said :

    The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His mes­sen­ger and strive after cor­rup­tion in the land will be that they will be killed or cru­ci­fied, or have their hands and feet on alter­nate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degra­da­tion in the world, and in the Here­after theirs will be an awful doom. – 5:33

    Mak­ing war I guess is not agree­ing with Allah and his Mes­sen­ger as well as those who as you say per­se­cute mus­lims, is this fair, does this sound like a book of peace ? ”

    The verse can­not be any clear­er. It clear­ly says mak­ing war.” That does not mean not believ­ing in Islam but using phys­i­cal vio­lence. If they per­se­cute Mus­lims, the Quran gives the Mus­lims their God-giv­en right to defend them­selves. I can­not under­stand why Chris­tians feel that these vers­es are some­how evil” or unmer­ci­ful.” It seems to me that there is an inher­ent bias against Islam, and no amount of intel­lec­tu­al rea­son­ing will change that. I hope I am wrong.

    You said :

    I am ful­ly aware that the Bible and the Torah both talk about pun­ish­ments such as these for adul­ter­ers and the such but if we look into the new tes­ta­ment the sto­ry of the ston­ing of the woman takes place (John 8 1 – 11) where Jesus states that he who has com­mit­ted no sin may cast the first stone, there­fore say­ing that these kind of pun­ish­ments are hyp­o­crit­i­cal and that no man is able to make that deci­sion. Which is why Chris­tians believe that sin­ner will be dealt with by God which is why we don’t stone peo­ple 4 those sorts of crimes any more…”

    I have two prob­lems with your argu­ment. First, the New Tes­ta­ment did not apply here because it did not exist in the time of David. There­fore, your argu­ment is point­less. What they had at the time was the Law of Moses, and that law called for the ston­ing of the adul­ter­er or adul­tress as I showed in my pre­vi­ous response. It is irrel­e­vant what the New Tes­ta­ment says in this case. David, as king, was not tasked with uphold­ing the New Tes­ta­ment, but the Old Tes­ta­ment. The New Tes­ta­ment did not come about until much lat­er. He should have been put to death as the law required. Why was he not ? I ask again. Are peo­ple of pow­er above the law ?

    Sec­ond, you evoke John 8:1 – 11 in your argu­ment that the Law of Moses no longer applies to Chris­tians, even though this is irrel­e­vant to the mat­ter at hand. The prob­lem with your argu­ment is archae­o­log­i­cal. You see, accord­ing to your own Bible (The New Inter­na­tion­al Version):

    ((The ear­li­est and most reli­able man­u­scripts and oth­er ancient wit­ness­es do not have John 7:53 – 8:11.))”

    This is what the NIV says regard­ing the Peri­cope de Adul­tera.” You can see for your­self here :
    http://​www​.bible​gate​way​.com/​p​a​s​s​a​g​e​/​?​b​o​o​k​_​i​d​=​50&​c​h​a​p​t​e​r​=​7&​v​e​r​s​i​o​n​=31

    Archae­o­log­i­cal evi­dence shows that these vers­es were not added to the Bible until hun­dreds of years of Jesus (pbuh). One of the most famous New Tes­ta­ment man­u­scripts attests to the absence of the Peri­cope from the ear­li­est Chris­t­ian sources and that man­u­script is P66 or Papyrus 66, which has been dat­ed to about 200 CE, mak­ing it one of the ear­li­est. You can see pic­tures of it here :

    http://www1.uni-bremen.de/~wie/ww_tc.html

    Scroll down a bit and you will see it below The Sinaiti­cus Finds of 1975.” Clear­ly, there is a prob­lem with John 8:1 – 11 and it is there­fore not suit­ed for your argu­ment. I have done my research. It seems that you have not done yours.

    You said :

    This relates to your ques­tion about David and why he wasn’t giv­en the tra­di­tion­al pun­ish­ment. I am not a the­olo­gian so I can only answer you accord­ing to my own knowl­edge and under­stand­ing… David was wrong in what he did and his son was killed as a result I think that is worse then any pun­ish­ment includ­ing the orig­i­nal. How­ev­er your belief that its not true because he did some­thing wrong I don’t under­stand David was a man not a God and he made mis­takes like any one of us, yes he is a prophet and in his mis­take and pun­ish­ment he still gave the mes­sage of God as his pun­ish­ment rein­forced moses’ law , thou shalt not com­mit adultery’.”

    Why is David’s son killed for the sins of his father ? Is this your idea of Bib­li­cal jus­tice ? In order to pun­ish David, God kills his son ? From your words, it seems as if you are not dis­turbed by this. I cer­tain­ly am. Why is an inno­cent child killed for some­thing he did not do and the real sin­ner gets off the hook ? Is the Bible real­ly pro-life. I see all these Chris­tians oppos­ing abor­tion and yet their own scrip­ture talks of infan­ti­cide ! It sends shiv­ers down my spine. I mean no offense but this sto­ry dis­turbs me to the core.

    You said :

    In response to the ques­tion about Lot I apol­o­gise for not being clear I believe that Lot and Sodom and Gom­morah show the same kind of sin but I don’t under­stand why you wouldn’t accept the sto­ry lot in Chris­tian­i­ty is not a Prophet he is a nor­mal man who along with his daugh­ters com­mit­ed sin. That is the top­ic here diss­cussing the above about the prophet sleep­ing with his daugh­ters, he isn’t a prophet. As I said before I don’t have all the answers, but I don’t c why this sto­ry stands out any more we have shown the above is wrong and lot isn’t a key fig­ure in the bible so I cant say I have been taught about him enough to answer these questions.”

    First of all, Lot is not a nor­mal” man. He was vis­it­ed by angels for God’s sake ! How many peo­ple do you know that have been vis­it­ed by angels who deliv­ered God’s word to them. Lot was the recip­i­ent of God’s word. God, in his mer­cy, sent Lot to reform the peo­ple of Sodom and Gamor­rah, because He nev­er pun­ish­es any­one with­out send­ing guid­ance to them first. The peo­ple of Sodom and Gamor­rah reject­ed God’s word and were there­fore destroyed. They were giv­en a chance and they blew it. So even if Lot did not make prophe­cies, he still received God’s word. There­fore, he was not a nor­mal per­son. God was com­mu­ni­cat­ing with him through His angels. He was not a nor­mal man. I am sor­ry to say that your answers are not sufficient.

    You said :

    I have a ques­tion though why do you not accept the sto­ries of David being an adul­ter­er because he is a Prophet and there­fore would­nt have com­mit­ed such a vile’ crime, then why do you believe in Mohammed ? He com­mit­ted worse crimes then David ever did- he killed inno­cent peo­ple and instruct­ed the killing of the inno­cent, raped women and instruct­ed the rape of women- tak­ing what the right hand pos­sess’ mar­ried a child which today con­sti­tutes and pae­dophil­ia. Is it not ? And reject­ed god becoz Gods word was mak­ing him unpop­u­lar and instead said it was ok to believe in al uzzat and minat If I am wrong plz cor­rect me as I say my knowl­edge of the qur’an is still young.”

    Please give me exam­ples of where the blessed Prophet Muham­mad (pbuh) killed inno­cent peo­ple and raped women. This is slan­der of the worst type, and it is unfor­tu­nate­ly quite typ­i­cal among many Chris­tians, although not all. I can say with full hon­esty that I have many Chris­t­ian friends who do not believe that the Prophet Muham­mad (pbuh) was a mur­der­er and rapist. They know that his­to­ry says oth­er­wise ; that he was wise, a great leader and a cham­pi­on of the poor and of women. The Al-Uzza and Al-Man­at argu­ment is also false. The so-called Satan­ic Vers­es” myth has been proven to be false. You can read a detailed refu­ta­tion of this myth here :

    http://​www​.islam​ic​-aware​ness​.org/​P​o​l​e​m​i​c​s​/​s​v​e​r​s​e​s​.​h​tml

    You said :

    Anoth­er ques­tion is by stat­ing the the sto­ries of lot and David are wrong are you not going against the teach­ing of the qur’an.

    Sura 5:68 — Say : O Peo­ple of the Book ! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah), the Gospel (Injeel), and all the rev­e­la­tion that has come to you from your Lord.””

    Verse 41 of the same surah states the following :

    O Mes­sen­ger ! let not those grieve thee, who race each oth­er into unbe­lief : (whether it be) among those who say We believe” with their lips but whose hearts have no faith (the hyp­ocrites); or it be among the Jews,- men who will lis­ten to any lie,- will lis­ten even to oth­ers who have nev­er so much as come to thee. THEY CHANGE THE WORDS from their (right) times and places : they say, If ye are giv­en this, take it, but if not, beware!” If any one’s tri­al is intend­ed by Allah, thou hast no author­i­ty in the least for him against Allah. For such — it is not Allah’s will to puri­fy their hearts. For them there is dis­grace in this world, and in the Here­after a heavy punishment. ”

    Also, the Quran crit­i­cizes the Jews and Chris­tians from divert­ing from the truth. Surah 5:65 – 66 states :

    If only the Peo­ple of the Book had believed and been right­eous, We should indeed have blot­ted out their iniq­ui­ties and admit­ted them to gar­dens of bliss.
    If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the rev­e­la­tion that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed hap­pi­ness from every side. There is from among them a par­ty on the right course : but many of them fol­low a course that is evil. ”

    The mean­ing here is that they did not hold fast to the Torah and the Gospel which were God’s words, but instead altered the Word. So, yes the Quran does hon­or the Torah and the Gospel but it crit­i­cizes the Jews and the Chris­tians for chang­ing God’s words and putting in their own. A per­fect exam­ple is John 8:1 – 11. Clear­ly, these vers­es did not exist in the 2nd cen­tu­ry but some­how start­ing pop­ping up in 3rd and 4th cen­tu­ry Bibles.

    You said :

    Sura 29:46 Mus­lims are told by Allah, not to ques­tion the author­i­ty of the scrip­tures of the Chris­tians, say­ing, And dis­pute ye not with the Peo­ple of the Book, but say, We believe in the rev­e­la­tion which has come down to us and in that which came down to you ; Our Allah and your Allah is one;”

    You don’t do a good job of quot­ing scrip­ture. The verse, in its entire­ty states the following :

    And dis­pute ye not with the Peo­ple of the Book, except with means bet­ter (than mere dis­pu­ta­tion), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, We believe in the rev­e­la­tion which has come down to us and in that which came down to you ; Our Allah and your Allah is one ; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).”

    So you see, it does not for­bid Mus­lims from argu­ing with Chris­tians. Ibn Kathir wrote that the mean­ing of this verse is that :

    any­one who wants to find out about reli­gion from them should argue with them in a man­ner that is bet­ter, as this will be more effec­tive. Allah says : (Invite to the way of your Lord with wis­dom and fair preach­ing…) (16:125) And Allah said to Musa and Harun when he sent them to Fir‘awn : (And speak to him mild­ly, per­haps he may accept admo­ni­tion or fear.) (20:44)”

    There is no pro­hi­bi­tion from debat­ing and dis­cussing, as long as it is pro­duc­tive. Whether our con­ver­sa­tion is pro­duc­tive or not remains to be seen. I am try­ing to show you the truth, so it is worth it.

    You said :

    the scrolls of the ot and nt have been found and autho­rised as the same now as they were then, they are now in a muse­um in Jerusalem.”

    As I showed above, this is not the case. John 8:1 – 11 are not present in scrolls of the…NT” along with oth­er vers­es. If you study the Bib­li­cal man­u­scripts, you will find many dis­crep­an­cies. I don’t think that you have stud­ied the man­u­scripts and have not done the appro­pri­ate research. You sim­ply accept what you have been told.

    Once again, thank you for offer­ing your views. I look for­ward to your response !

  12. Marriyah Avatar
    Marriyah

    Hi there Islamis­peace’
    Thank-you for your reply as i am always inter­est­ed in your opin­ions and ques­tions. And I will try my best to answer them to high standard…
    First­ly I was a bit dis­ap­point­ed with your answer con­cern­ing peace in the Qur’an I didn’t expect you to list all but at least a few… I also don’t under­stand the pas­sage you have giv­en the gen­er­al mes­sage is as I said pre­vi­ous its to oth­er muslim’s and only if asked for for­give­ness… is this real­ly peace at all … please explain further.

    In my study/​interest of the quran I have come across many pas­sages that speak of violence…

    Choose not friends from them [unbe­liev­ers]. … Take them and kill them wher­ev­er ye find them. – 4:89

    This act of vio­lence issued by the qur’an fails to include the words if pro­voked’ but states that because they are of a dif­fer­ing faith they should be killed thus giv­ing the job of god to man. Not very peaceful

    The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His mes­sen­ger and strive after cor­rup­tion in the land will be that they will be killed or cru­ci­fied, or have their hands and feet on alter­nate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degra­da­tion in the world, and in the Here­after theirs will be an awful doom. – 5:33

    Mak­ing war I guess is not agree­ing with Allah and his Mes­sen­ger as well as those who as you say per­se­cute mus­lims, is this fair, does this sound like a book of peace ?

    I am ful­ly aware that the Bible and the Torah both talk about pun­ish­ments such as these for adul­ter­ers and the such but if we look into the new tes­ta­ment the sto­ry of the ston­ing of the woman takes place (John 8 1 – 11) where Jesus states that he who has com­mit­ted no sin may cast the first stone, there­fore say­ing that these kind of pun­ish­ments are hyp­o­crit­i­cal and that no man is able to make that deci­sion. Which is why Chris­tians believe that sin­ner will be dealt with by God which is why we don’t stone peo­ple 4 those sorts of crimes any more…
    This relates to your ques­tion about David and why he wasn’t giv­en the tra­di­tion­al pun­ish­ment. I am not a the­olo­gian so I can only answer you accord­ing to my own knowl­edge and under­stand­ing… David was wrong in what he did and his son was killed as a result I think that is worse then any pun­ish­ment includ­ing the orig­i­nal. How­ev­er your belief that its not true because he did some­thing wrong I don’t under­stand David was a man not a God and he made mis­takes like any one of us, yes he is a prophet and in his mis­take and pun­ish­ment he still gave the mes­sage of God as his pun­ish­ment rein­forced moses’ law , thou shalt not com­mit adultery’.

    In response to the ques­tion about Lot I apol­o­gise for not being clear I believe that Lot and Sodom and Gom­morah show the same kind of sin but I don’t under­stand why you wouldn’t accept the sto­ry lot in Chris­tian­i­ty is not a Prophet he is a nor­mal man who along with his daugh­ters com­mit­ed sin. That is the top­ic here diss­cussing the above about the prophet sleep­ing with his daugh­ters, he isn’t a prophet. As I said before I don’t have all the answers, but I don’t c why this sto­ry stands out any more we have shown the above is wrong and lot isn’t a key fig­ure in the bible so I cant say I have been taught about him enough to answer these questions.

    I have a ques­tion though why do you not accept the sto­ries of David being an adul­ter­er because he is a Prophet and there­fore would­nt have com­mit­ed such a vile’ crime, then why do you believe in Mohammed ? He com­mit­ted worse crimes then David ever did- he killed inno­cent peo­ple and instruct­ed the killing of the inno­cent, raped women and instruct­ed the rape of women- tak­ing what the right hand pos­sess’ mar­ried a child which today con­sti­tutes and pae­dophil­ia. Is it not ? And reject­ed god becoz Gods word was mak­ing him unpop­u­lar and instead said it was ok to believe in al uzzat and minat If I am wrong plz cor­rect me as I say my knowl­edge of the qur’an is still young.

    Anoth­er ques­tion is by stat­ing the the sto­ries of lot and David are wrong are you not going against the teach­ing of the qur’an.

    Sura 5:68 — Say : O Peo­ple of the Book ! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah), the Gospel (Injeel), and all the rev­e­la­tion that has come to you from your Lord.”

    Sura 29:46 Mus­lims are told by Allah, not to ques­tion the author­i­ty of the scrip­tures of the Chris­tians, say­ing, And dis­pute ye not with the Peo­ple of the Book, but say, We believe in the rev­e­la­tion which has come down to us and in that which came down to you ; Our Allah and your Allah is one ;

    If these are accu­rate sita­tions then that would also mean that the divin­i­ty of the quran is in ques­tion because byu say­ing the these events didn’t hap­pen includ­ing the sta­tus of Jesus as son of God is against your own qur’an and your qur’an is against itself, because inb one place it says he wasn’t son of God and in the oth­er he says that u shud lis­ten to the bible which say he is and that these sto­ries doid occur ? And plz don’t say that its just about the real bible and torah’ and not the one we look at because I am aware of that myth, the scrolls of the ot and nt have been found and autho­rised as the same now as they were then, they are now in a muse­um in Jerusalem.

    I look for­ward to your response.

  13. DingDong Avatar
    DingDong

    truth”- “…we are talk­ing about Chris­tians priests who con­vert to Islam”

    u have just been giv­en a list of Chris­t­ian priests who have con­vert­ed to Islam. Why dont you address that first ? Instead, you keep beat­ing around the bush.… otherwise,we will not get any­where, truth”.

  14. Truth Avatar
    Truth

    I we are talk­ing about Chris­tians priests who con­vert to Islam, how about Imams who con­vert into Chris­t­ian ? Don’t tell me that they don’t under­stand Koran.

  15. islamispeace Avatar
    islamispeace

    Hel­lo Marriyah,

    Thank you for your prompt reply. I apol­o­gize that I was not so prompt in mine.

    First and fore­most, I would like to answer your ques­tion regard­ing Islam and peace. Islam does talk about peace, both the peace we get from wor­ship­ping God and peace with oth­er peo­ple. With regard to the lat­ter, I believe Surah 8:61 answers your ques­tion. It talks about mak­ing peace with one’s ene­mies. The ene­mies here are those attack Mus­lims or per­se­cute them. Whether you may or may not know, Islam’s posi­tion on war is that it is allowed only when there is per­se­cu­tion against Mus­lims. When the ene­my which per­se­cutes us asks for peace, then we are oblig­at­ed to seek peace. Surah 8:58 – 62 states the following :

    If thou fear­est treach­ery from any group, throw back (their covenant) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms : for Allah loveth not the treacherous.
    Let not the unbe­liev­ers think that they can get the bet­ter (of the god­ly): they will nev­er frus­trate (them).
    Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your pow­er, includ­ing steeds of war, to strike ter­ror into (the hearts of) the ene­mies, of Allah and your ene­mies, and oth­ers besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. What­ev­er ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treat­ed unjustly.
    But if the ene­my incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah : for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
    Should they intend to deceive thee,- ver­i­ly Allah suf­ficeth thee : He it is That hath strength­ened thee with His aid and with (the com­pa­ny of) the Believers ;

    These vers­es should suf­fice for an answer to your ques­tion, which was a good one.

    Con­cern­ing the sto­ry of Lot, you said the following :

    first­ly the sto­ry about Lot you have recit­ed cor­rect­ly but this is not a pos­i­tive event and in fact when God floods the world does he not do it due to such sin that is going on.”

    I apol­o­gize but I do not under­stand what you are try­ing to say. Please clarify.

    Con­cern­ing David and Bathshe­ba, yes you are cor­rect to say that God sent the prophet Nathan to repu­di­ate David for his behav­ior. How­ev­er, this is still not suf­fi­cient. The prob­lem Mus­lims have with this sto­ry is why would God choose a man who acts in such despi­ca­ble ways as His rep­re­sen­ta­tive to the chil­dren of Israel ? David makes all these prayers in the Book of Psalms, which are sup­posed to serve as inspi­ra­tion for the believ­ers, and yet he behaves like a sex­u­al deviant ? As a Mus­lim, I have a hard time believ­ing that David com­mit­ted adul­tery, and then was not pun­ished accord­ing to the laws of the Torah ! Why was he not exe­cut­ed as the Torah com­mands ? Are peo­ple of pow­er above the law ? Leviti­cus 20:10 is crys­tal clear on the pun­ish­ment for adultery :

    If a man com­mits adul­tery with anoth­er man’s wife — with the wife of his neigh­bor — both the adul­ter­er and the adul­ter­ess must be put to death.

    This applies to David specif­i­cal­ly because Bathshe­ba was lit­er­al­ly his neigh­bor’s wife, was she not ? Even if she was not, he still com­mit­ted adul­tery and thus should have been exe­cut­ed. Why was he not ? Why did­n’t Nathan remind him of the laws of the Torah ? It is because of these dis­crep­an­cies that Mus­lims reject the sto­ry as false. We do not believe that David com­mit­ted adul­tery. We believe he was a man of God and would not dream of com­mit­ting some­thing as vile as adultery.

    You also said the following :

    sor­ry can i just add in rela­tion to the sto­ry about Lot i did­nt make this clear b4 but it was­nt Lot who slept with his daugh­ters will­ing­ly, Lot was made drunk and then his daugh­ters had sex with him this is a good rea­son why you should­nt drink to exc­cess. so real­ly it was his Daugh­ters who weren’t Pro­hets in any way as Pro­het­dom is not passed down through blood. there­fore the belief that a prophet slept with his daugh­ters is in fact wrong.”

    Is not get­ting drunk a sin ? Why would Lot allow his daugh­ters to give him so much alco­hol, know­ing the appar­ent pro­hi­bi­tion against get­ting drunk, espe­cial­ly after he wit­nessed God’s awe­some pow­er in the destruc­tion of Sodom and Gamor­rah ? I don’t believe that Lot would get drunk. I think he would have known bet­ter. There­fore, I reject the sto­ry as false.

    Thank you for offer­ing your views on this sub­ject. I have enjoyed con­vers­ing with you.

  16. startucuus Avatar
    startucuus

    No body who tru­ly under­stands Chris­tian­i­ty would fol­low Islam” .…??

    A brief” list of for­mer Chris­t­ian Priests and Mis­sion­ar­ies who have Embraced Islam.…

    Viach­eslav Polosin — For­mer Arch­priest of the Russ­ian Ortho­dox Church who heads the admin­is­tra­tion of the Com­mit­tee on Rela­tions with Pub­lic Asso­ci­a­tions and Reli­gious Orga­ni­za­tions of the State Duma of the Russ­ian federation
    Abdul­lah al-Faruq — For­mer­ly Ken­neth L. Jenk­ins, min­is­ter and elder of the Pen­te­costal Church
    Dr. Jer­ald F. Dirks — For­mer min­is­ter (dea­con) of the Unit­ed Methodist Church. He holds a Mas­ter’s degree in Divin­i­ty from Har­vard Uni­ver­si­ty and a Doc­tor­ate in Psy­chol­o­gy from the Uni­ver­si­ty of Den­ver. Author of The Cross and the Cres­cent : An Inter­faith Dia­logue between Chris­tian­i­ty and Islam (ISBN 1590080025 — Amana Pub­li­ca­tions, 2001). He has pub­lished over 60 arti­cles in the field of clin­i­cal psychology
    Anselm Tormee­da — 14th cen­tu­ry CE schol­ar and priest
    Khadi­jah Sue’ Wat­son — For­mer pas­tor, mis­sion­ary, pro­fes­sor. Mas­ter’s degree in Divinity
    Ibrahim Khalil — For­mer Egypt­ian Cop­tic priest
    Mar­tin John Mwaipopo — For­mer Luther­an Archbishop
    Raphael — For­mer Jeho­vah’s Wit­ness minister
    George Antho­ny — For­mer Catholic priest
    Abdul-Ahad Dawud (David Ben­jamin Kel­dani) — from Catholi­cism, for­mer Roman Catholic priest of the Uni­ate-Chaldean sect schol­ar from Har­vard & a for­mer dea­con of Unit­ed Methodist church
    Yusuf Estes — from Chris­tian­i­ty, for­mer pas­tor & prison chaplain
    Dr. J. Nichol­son — PhD in Theology

    Last and CERTAINLY not least…

    Abdul-Ahad Omar (Dr. Gary Miller) — from Chris­tian­i­ty, for­mer priest & mis­sion­ary admin­is­tra­tion of the Com­mit­tee on Rela­tions with Pub­lic Asso­ci­a­tions & mathematician

  17. cahaya Avatar
    cahaya

    Faruh Rehan, do you real­ly under­stand Chris­tian­i­ty that well ? You lie.

  18. Marriyah Avatar
    Marriyah

    I agree with the above how­ev­er call­ing oth­er reli­gions unbe­liev­ers i dont think is right as we have some­thing to believe in we just don’t believe in Islam, There is a rea­son why the largest reli­gion in the world is Chris­tian­i­ty we are believ­ers in the pow­er of God and Jesus Christ and all the good they brought into the world. The only parts of the QUR’AN that are rep­utable are the parts lift­ed from the torah and the bible. The Torahs divin­i­ty was proved in the bible and the bibles divin­i­ty is proved in the prophe­cies made in the torah two examples

    Born in Beth­le­hem : Mic­ah 5:2.… Matthew 2:1.… Luke 2:4 – 7.
     — Mic.5:2 But you, Beth­le­hem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose ori­gins are from ancient times.
     — Mt.2:1 After Jesus was born in Beth­le­hem in Judea, dur­ing the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem. (Lk.2:4 – 7)
    To be born of a Virgin :
    Isa­iah 7:14, Matthew 1:18.… Luke 1:26 – 35.
     — Isa.7:14 There­fore the Lord him­self will give you a sign : The vir­gin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
     — Mt.1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about : his moth­er Mary was pledged to be mar­ried to Joseph, but before they came togeth­er, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spir­it. (Lk.1:26 – 35)

    But where is the prophe­cy about Mohammed or the last prophet ? If the qur’an was divine then it would have been proph­e­sised and Jesus’ death and sta­tus as the son of God would have been accept­ed in it. Why would God send Jesus to speak of peace and then send Mohammed to speak of war ?

    No body who tru­ly under­stands Chris­tian­i­ty would fol­low Islam.

  19. Surah 109-Unbelievers Avatar
    Surah 109-Unbelievers

    Say : Oh ye Unbelievers !
    I wor­ship not that which ye worship,
    And ye do not wor­ship that which I worship ;
    I shall nev­er wor­ship that which ye worship,
    Nei­ther will ye wor­ship that which I worship.
    To you be your reli­gion ; to me my religion.”

    I believe this is appro­pri­ate here… God has told us to leave the unbe­liev­ers to wor­ship as they wish.… for they will no more fol­low our faith than we will fol­low theirs.

  20. Faruh Rehan Avatar
    Faruh Rehan

    To Faith : Oh yes I do under­stand Chris­tian­i­ty well, very well in a mat­ter of fact, and thats why I am a Muslim.

  21. Truth Avatar
    Truth

    This is my per­son­al opin­ion. For Mus­lims, they are proud if they can fin­ish read­ing the Koran (“khatam”) sev­er­als times. The ques­tion is, are they real­ly under­stand the con­tents and the teach­ings ? for me as a Chris­t­ian, it’s very hard for me even to COMPLETE and UNDERSTAND one chap­ter. because you can’t under­stand the bible with­out the guid­ance of Holy Spir­it and you have to pray for it. for me that’s why i believe the Holy Bible is Holy and divine text. come on, if you can fin­ish it so eas­i­ly, than it’s no more than comics book and school textbooks.

  22. Truth Avatar
    Truth

    Why we judge sins of the past when in front of our eyes, it still hap­pen ? Do we hv the right and pow­er to judge oth­ers reli­gion ? Those who are sin­less cast the first stone. I assume that all Mus­lims who only know to attack oth­er reli­gion (to defend their faith??? i don’t think so..) are sin­less and you guys NEVER lie, NEVER drunk, NEVER think about sex, is it ? WOW…impressive. then you are at the same lev­el as God, sin­less and HOLY..Dream on!!!

  23. Marriyah Avatar
    Marriyah

    Ding dong please read Cahaya’s point i feel it may make more sense to you, the fact of the mat­ter is that the sto­ry of Lot did occur but he is not a Prophet and nei­ther were his daugh­ters (pre­vi­ous­ly i did think that Lot was a Prophet to you which is why i called him a Prophet out of respect but i have since been cor­rect­ed) so the sto­ry is untrue as it is titled a above as a prophet sleep­ing with his daughters.
    Sor­ry if i did­nt make myself clear enough. and yes he was made drunk and they did sleep with him I dont c whats com­pli­cat­ed. The act of sleep­ing with some­one when they have been made drunk is dif­fer­ent to sleep­ing with some­one will­ing­ly is it not.

  24. Dingdong Avatar
    Dingdong

    Mar­riyah

    Can you please lis­ten to yourself ?

    1. Lot was made drunk and then his daugh­ters had sex with him
    2. there­fore the belief that a prophet slept with his daugh­ters is in fact wrong

    What???

  25. Marriyah Avatar
    Marriyah

    sor­ry can i just add in rela­tion to the sto­ry about Lot i did­nt make this clear b4 but it was­nt Lot who slept with his daugh­ters will­ing­ly, Lot was made drunk and then his daugh­ters had sex with him this is a good rea­son why you should­nt drink to exc­cess. so real­ly it was his Daugh­ters who weren’t Pro­hets in any way as Pro­het­dom is not passed down through blood. there­fore the belief that a prophet slept with his daugh­ters is in fact wrong.

  26. cahaya Avatar
    cahaya

    First of all, let me just point out that the Bible is a his­tor­i­cal account of God’s deal­ing with his peo­ple … the good, the bad and the ugly.

    For islamis­peace and Ter­rence, don’t just read what is pre­sent­ed here about the bible. The bible has noth­ing to hide about the sins of God’s peo­ple. Read those ref­er­ences in con­text and see for your­self if the accounts are as lurid as claimed here. If there are lurid” details, read also what hap­pened to those peo­ple inv­oled in those lurid acts.

    Anoth­er thing, when Mus­lims say prophets” of the bible, don’t you blind­ly agree on their def­i­n­i­tion of a prophet. Lot was nev­er a prophet, and nei­ther was Caiaphas the high priest.

    I still main­tain that the Koran is not divine. If the Koran is indeed the final rev­e­la­tion from God, and is sup­posed to make clear all the pre­vi­ous books of God, how is it that the Koran can­not get the sto­ries that are also found in the Bible right ? And how can Muham­mad sim­ply declare that Jesus was nev­er cru­ci­fied when that event is a mat­ter of his­tor­i­cal fact ?

  27. Marriyah Avatar
    Marriyah

    Thank-you Isla­mi peace for your reply and i hope i can suc­cess­ful­ly answer your ques­tions. First­ly Yes you are quite right these two sto­ries do take place in the bible, and i dont dis­pute that my issue is with select­ing these pas­sages and not telling the full sto­ry… first­ly the sto­ry about Lot you have recit­ed cor­rect­ly but this is not a pos­i­tive event and in fact when God floods the world does he not do it due to such sin that is going on.
    The sto­ry of Bathshe­ba and David is a case of intend­ed mis­in­ter­pre­taion first­ly yes the sto­ry is true but if you read on to the next sec­tion (in my bible just under it) God sends the Prophet Nathan to pun­ish David for his sin and the pun­ish­ment lies in the death of his son (2samuel 12 16 – 23. Anoth­er is shown when we are all sup­posed to be idol wor­ship­pers, first­ly these jews were the same ones freed from Egypt who were mis­guid­ed in their reli­gion and need­ed some­thing i which to focus so aaron took all the gold and melt­ed it and mould­ed it into the shape of a Bull/​Calf they styart­ed wor­ship­ping it and offer­ing it gifts, whilst this was going on Moses was on the moun­tain col­lect­ing the ten com­mand­ments, when God saw what his peo­ple were doing he was angery and (exo­dus 13) want­ed to destroy them Moses plead­ed for their lives and returned to his peo­ple witrh the ten com­mand­ments which taught them how to wor­ship unlike their pagan Egypt­ian keep­ers (which was all they knew)
    Im not try­ing to dis­pute whether or not these events took place im angery that the full sto­ry has been cut in order to paint a neg­a­tive pic­ture of Chris­tian­i­ty when your try­ing to prove the divin­i­ty of the Qur’an why cant you just focus on the Qur’an or tell the truth the whole truth the com­plete story.
    Therr are many neg­a­tive sides of reli­gion fopr exam­ple sites like Ali Sinas which says that your Prophet mar­ried a 6 – 9 year old child, raped a jew­ish woman named Safiya and spoke the words of satan in his hours of doubt is this true… or is it a fab­ri­ca­tion, I dont know but I dont write in to web sites where i dont know the truth and yet give my praise for anoth­ers lies against any reli­gion, and Im glad that you have done some research but oth­ers who just con­grat­u­late what they want to hear makes me angery.
    Thats my only issue with this page by Azmy.
    Thanks again for your reply…
    Can i ask ques­tion that no one has been able to answer for me im not being fun­ny im ask­ing a gen­er­al ques­tion but where does the Qur’an speak of peace. because on most of the web pages that i have been on even the mus­lim ones they dont say when they do its about peace to your mus­lim bros and sis and not to oth­ers so please reply with answer, im gen­uin­ly want­i­ng to know.

  28. islamispeace Avatar
    islamispeace

    Mar­riyah,

    Kind­ly show how the facts we blind­ly accept­ed are clear­ly fake.” You say they are fake, but you don’t say why. Sor­ry, but this will not count as an intel­li­gent response. Are you say­ing that the Bible does not say that a prophet slept with his daugh­ters ? The sto­ry is well-known. Lot’s daugh­ters get him drunk and then have sex with him. Is this not what the Bible says ? Does not the Bible describe how David slept with Bathshe­ba, and then sent her hus­band out to war so that he may be killed and thus leave Bathshe­ba for David ? Are you say­ing that the Bible does not say these things ? Kind­ly reply.

  29. Marriyah Avatar
    Marriyah

    In response to the the writ­ing above by Azmy on the divin­i­ty of the Qur’an, I guess you are already aware that these are delib­er­ate mis­in­ter­pre­taions and high­ly insult­ing to Chris­t­ian peo­ple. Even though I am aware that this site is in response to those who have been anti- mus­lim (and they are not all chris­t­ian please note) but I dont believe doing exact­ly what they are doing to you is the right way to go about it.
    The above only proves that the Qur’ans divin­i­ty is based and can only be proved by lies. (your words Azmy not mine)please ammend your mistakes.(try read­ing the bible this time)

    And to Shery, Isla­mi peace and s.k you rejoiced to soon for the facts you blind­ly accept­ed are clear­ly fake. Sor­ry for your dissapointment

  30. Terence Avatar
    Terence

    Arnold,

    God MUST make sense to the rea­son­ing mind. The rea­son­ing mind also under­stands that it itself is lim­it­ed, but yet it itself serve a very impor­tant func­tion.. to recog­nise God and that its lim­i­ta­tion is a sign to the infinite­ness of God.

    Isa­iah 1:18 Come now, let us rea­son togeth­er,” says the LORD
    jere­mi­ah 17:9 The heart is deceit­ful above all things, and it is exceed­ing­ly cor­rupt : who can know it ?
    jere­mi­ah 17:10 I, Jeho­vah, search the mind, I try the heart, even to give every man accord­ing to his ways, accord­ing to the fruit of his doings.

  31. PaakMaw Avatar
    PaakMaw

    Folks, you might as well give up on this blog. The ver­bous HeiGou will flood this blog with his base­less claims and accu­sa­tions to dis­tract and insti­gate you again. Like what he has done to oth­er blogs in this site. Con­grat­u­la­tions, HeiGou. You under­stand how the stu­pid­i­ty of Mus­lims work… because they dont know how to ignore you.

  32. Arnold Avatar
    Arnold

    I do not defend it, I mere­ly tell peo­ple why they are wrong for think­ing it’s impos­si­ble or illog­i­cal. Mus­lims think God should always make sense to the rea­son­ing mind, and that’s why they think the Quran is supe­ri­or to the Bible. But I think God is beyond our sen­si­bil­i­ties, and if it appears that God makes so much sense, chances are, you’re not read­ing about God but instead read­ing about a human inven­tion. Human inven­tions usu­al­ly make sense to the human, rea­son­ing mind. God often does not.

  33. HeiGou Avatar
    HeiGou

    Doc­tor­Maybe said on 23 Novem­ber 2006::“1. there were many chris­tians, includ­ing Bahi­ra, who con­firmed Muhammad(saw)’s prophethood:as record­ed in the sira. addi­tion­al­ly, there were many jews who had pre­fig­ured the appear­ance of a prophet that would destroy the idol­aters- lead­ing the ansars to embrace Islam-Alhamdolillah.”

    Actu­al­ly the Mus­lim tra­di­tion claims there were many Chris­tians who con­firmed Muhammed prophet­hood, but it is clear, with­out too much read­ing between the lines, this was not the case. Khadi­ja’s cousin declined to con­vert to Islam. In fact of the four hanif I know of, none of them died as Mus­lims, but as Chris­tians. The Jews may have had a belief about the com­ing of the Mes­si­ah, but they clear­ly did not believe he was Muhammed — as can be seen by their resis­tance to con­ver­sion and even­tu­al exile or death.

    Doc­tor­Maybe said on 23 Novem­ber 2006::“2. accord­ing to the catholic ency­clo­pe­dia, the hijaz was untouched by chris­t­ian teachings”

    I don’t think that is exact­ly what the Catholic Ency­clo­pe­dia says but if it does, it must be wrong because the aHa­dith make it clear that Muhammed’s wife’s cousin was trans­lat­ing the Bible into Ara­bic and there were oth­er Chris­tians about — in Yemen for instance. Unless you think the Quran is wrong ?

    Doc­tor­Maybe said on 23 Novem­ber 2006::“3. all Wans­bor­ough, whose approach to Islam was copied by crone and cook, did was guess. sur­pris­ing­ly, patri­cia crone con­ced­ed that Islam­ic lit­er­a­ture has some mer­it, how­ev­er small it might be. In her own words, We shall nev­er be able to do with­out the lit­er­ary sources, of course, and the chances are that most of what the tra­di­tion tells us about the prophet’s life is more or less cor­rect in some sense or other””

    Wans­bor­ough does more than guess. He applies mod­ern lit­er­ary and tex­tu­al crit­i­cism to the Mus­lim tra­di­tion. That approach is not going to go away. The key words in Crone’s pas­sage there is in some sense or oth­er”. That leave a lot of room for her to inter­pret Mus­lim his­to­ry as her work shows.

  34. DoctorMaybe Avatar
    DoctorMaybe

    Arnorld, how can you say that you are not a chris­t­ian, con­sid­er­ing that you defend­ed the trin­i­ty and divin­i­ty of christ in some oth­er thread ?

  35. Arnold Avatar
    Arnold

    Hezham, this is a real­ly stu­pid argu­ment. The Quran has absur­di­ties as well. And the Hadiths are prob­a­bly the most far fetched peice of of lit­er­a­ture amongst all reli­gion. Moses keeps on cor­rect­ing Gods com­mand for fre­quen­cy of pray­ing dur­ing Muham­mad’s jour­ney ? That is an unbe­liev­able, laugh­able sto­ry that’s as ridicu­lous as any­thing in the bible. But here is the stu­pid part that you did. You used flaws in Chris­tian­i­ty to make the Quran look divine. But I’m not a Chris­t­ian and I think that both the bible and the quran are quite absurd lit­tle fairy tales. So point­ing out errors in the bible means noth­ing to me. So, since you gave no rea­son to think the quran is divine and only gave rea­sons why the bible is not divine, you have done absolute­ly zero, zilch. That’s like find­ing out there is a hole in your boat and try­ing to fill the hole by polk­ing a hole in some­one else’s boat. That does­n’t fix the hole in your boat, dummy.

  36. faith Avatar
    faith

    Faruh Rehan : if you do not under­stand Chris­tian­i­ty, don’t come up with that non­sense about Chris­tians’ being law­less because their faith is based on just believe’. The idea of Chris­t­ian faith’s belief’ in God means that you will believe in God’s plans and God’s ver­sion of right and good. Specif­i­cal­ly speakin the New Tes­ta­ment (the one that Chris­tians use in order to jus­ti­fy’ why when Jesus came Moses Laws were now deemed out­dat­ed), demands Chris­tians to walk a Christ-led life. The key word is ques­tion­ing what would Jesus do?’. With that doc­trine in mind, then we will be led to live a sin­less life…

    oh why am i both­er­ing even explain­ing to you.

    In a nut­shell, if your knowl­edge of Chris­tian­i­ty is con­fined to a peanut-case, then keep it in the case.

  37. Abdul Mutalib Avatar
    Abdul Mutalib

    If we read the Quran and the Bible enough and with no prej­u­dice and get to know the back­ground of both, we will see a lot of dif­fer­ences between them. In addi­tion we should also need to know how both have come into exis­tence in our world and the ways the ancient peo­ple pre­serve both for mod­ern peole like us.
    A lot of mis­un­der­stand­ings come from with­er prej­u­dice or igno­rance or both. I reserve my comment.

  38. DoctorMaybe Avatar
    DoctorMaybe

    In response to chaya

    1. there were many chris­tians, includ­ing Bahi­ra, who con­firmed Muhammad(saw)‘s prophethood:as record­ed in the sira. addi­tion­al­ly, there were many jews who had pre­fig­ured the appear­ance of a prophet that would destroy the idol­aters- lead­ing the ansars to embrace Islam-Alhamdolillah.

    2. accord­ing to the catholic ency­clo­pe­dia, the hijaz was untouched by chris­t­ian teachings

    3. all Wans­bor­ough, whose approach to Islam was copied by crone and cook, did was guess. sur­pris­ing­ly, patri­cia crone con­ced­ed that Islam­ic lit­er­a­ture has some mer­it, how­ev­er small it might be. In her own words, We shall nev­er be able to do with­out the lit­er­ary sources, of course, and
    the chances are that most of what the tra­di­tion tells us about the prophet’s
    life is more or less cor­rect in some sense or other”

  39. islamispeace Avatar
    islamispeace

    I agree with Ter­ence. Per­haps cahaya should dwelve more on why the Bible describes prophets sleep­ing with their daugh­ters and com­mit­ting adul­tery, and less on his­tor­i­cal myths.

  40. Abu Youshaa Avatar
    Abu Youshaa

    Oh ! no porno?!! How will we inter­grate into society ?

  41. Faruh Rehan Avatar
    Faruh Rehan

    Adding to the points, I think the most cru­cial point is that the Quran impos­es lots of law, can’t do this, do that, no alco­hol, no sex out­side mar­riage, no gam­bling (big busi­ness!!!), can’t wear skimpy fash­ion”, no pork, no same-sex mar­riage, on and on. For the xtian, the law is not there any­more, so hur­raay, we can do all that. How could Quran impos­es such laws when all they want is to get away with it ? No sin, noth­ing, just believe in Jesus (for­get what He says, just believe in Him only) and you will be saved. Don’t for­get to wear your cross. It is more pow­er­ful than the Lord. You can wear it between your cleav­age or draw it on your but­tocks or pubic areas. The dev­il won’t be scared when you men­tion the Lord’s name, but show the cross and the Dev­il will turn green, as if he saw anoth­er Devil.

  42. Truth Avatar
    Truth

    Guys, give me a break. Do not con­demn oth­er reli­gion. Both Chris­t­ian and Islam come from the same root, so why fight amongst us ? If the Chris­tians believe in Jesus, so be it. If the Mus­lims believe in Islam teach­ing, so be it. If you are talk­ing about num­bers of peo­ples con­vert into Islam, then how about num­bers of Mus­lims con­vert into Islam by their free will ? The choic­es if up to the indi­vid­u­als. C’mon, believe in what you believe in and STOP com­par­ing and con­demn­ing oth­er reli­gions. I’m a Chris­t­ian and I believe in Jesus. That’s mat­ter for me. I believe in Jesus because He’s the Way, the Truth and the Life. I know for Mus­lims Jesus is just a Prophet. So what ?

  43. Truth Avatar
    Truth

    Hahahaha…Read and under­stand the WHOLE bible than u will under­stand. I won’t explain cos I know no mat­ter how I explain, u guys will keep on attack­ing Chris­t­ian. My advice, if u real­ly wants to know about Bible and Chris­t­ian, go to the right per­son. There’s no point debat­ing on it like this.

  44. Slave of allah Avatar
    Slave of allah

    http://​www​.evil​bible​.com/ 10) God Assists Rape and Plun­der (Zechari­ah 14:1 – 2 NAB)

    http://​www​.storm​front​.org/​j​e​w​i​s​h​/​t​a​l​m​u​d​.​h​tml

    Baba Kam­ma 113a. Jews may use lies (“sub­terfuges”) to cir­cum­vent a Gentile.

  45. Terence Avatar
    Terence

    Gol­ly, I am sur­prised that cahaya” is still refer­ing to such gra­tu­itous and excru­ti­at­ing­ly pre­sump­tu­ous ori­en­tal­is­tic folklore.
    1. Have you not even read or checked or refut­ed the claims against the Bible ?
    2. Well, let’s do #1 first.

  46. cahaya Avatar
    cahaya

    How does what is said in anoth­er book prove that the Quran is divine?!

    The Quran can­not be divine : Look at the bizarre amal­gam in regard to the sto­ry of Jesus.

    1. We are told that Jesus is only a prophet of Allah (I did already told you that the rera­sons giv­en by Allah as in Jesus breath­ing air and eat­ing food are irra­tional rea­sons to con­clude that he was just a man and not a God but again sim­ple and pro­found Aris­totelian log­ic was beyond your Allah).

    2. We are also told that Jesus was able to cre­ate life by breat­ing life into clay birds this indeed makes him a God.

    3. We are also told that Jesus was lift­ed by Allah which would mean that he did not die and a being that does not die is a God.

    4. Allah declares that the Trin­i­ty is Allah, Jesus and Mary which is not real­ly the real Chris­t­ian Trinity.

    So where did Muham­mad get all this strange and con­tra­dic­to­ry infor­ma­tion from ?

    Well, we know that all of these ideas about the nature of the Christ were already being debat­ed by Chris­tians in the Mid­dle East in the late antique peri­od includ­ing Arias of Alexan­dria, Nesto­ri­ans, Jaco­bites, Melkites, Gnos­tics etc…

    Now the ques­tion now would be how did Muham­mad the poor the­olo­gian trans­mit such infor­ma­tion in the Qur’an ?

    1. May be dur­ing his trav­el to Syr­ia he did dis­cuss and lis­ten to what Chris­tians in the Mid­dle East were say­ing about the mat­ter. I very much doubt that this is what real­ly hap­pened, because after the Arab inva­sion of the Mid­dle East the extant Syr­i­ac, Cop­tic and Greek sources are _​silent_​about any­thing to do with Muham­mad vis­it­ing Syr­ia. The peo­ple of the Mid­dle East had no clue who those invaders were. Those Arab invaders called them­selves not Mus­lims and not Arabs but : al-Muha­jiru­un go fig­ure!. As for the sto­ry of Bohi­ra (see the Sira) I sus­pect that this was made up and should not be regard­ed as real history.

    2. The sec­ond pos­si­bil­i­ty is that may be Muham­mad learned about such infor­ma­tion from Chris­tians liv­ing in th HIjaz. How­ev­er, the Chris­t­ian and Jew­ish sources are silent about any such com­mu­ni­ties in either Mec­ca or Medina.

    3. Last : I sus­pect and I agree with Wans­brough that the ori­gin of Islam is from Mesopotamia and not Ara­bia and that the Arab poli­ty that invad­ed the Mid­dle East in the ear­ly 630’s had no defined reli­gion as of yet and Islam was already being formed from the sec­tar­i­an debates among Chis­tians and Jews and the end result was Islam. The Arab poli­ty select­ed Islam as the reli­gion of the emerg­ing Arab state. I do belive that this is indeed what hap­pened. But this detach­es Islam from Ara­bia and Mua­ham­mad from the Qur’an. This fits very nice­ly with the extant evi­dence that we have.

    (Extract­ed from the debate between Sohail and Dhim­mi no more at http://​www​.danielpipes​.org/​c​o​m​m​e​n​t​s​/​64738)

  47. Terence Avatar
    Terence

    Aditya, I’m con­fused. Arent Singhs Sikhs ? Kind­ly shed some light, bro.

  48. Aditya Singh Avatar
    Aditya Singh

    Hehe­he.…. nice way to defend your religion.
    Your brought up good points. Lets see what the chris­tians say.
    I am a hin­du BTW.

  49. islamispeace Avatar
    islamispeace

    Very inter­est­ing, indeed. What were we Mus­lims think­ing ? The Quran has no sto­ries of incest, adul­tery and mur­der, but the Bible does. How could we have been so naïve ? It is so obvious !

  50. omar Avatar
    omar

    You just made a sum­ma­ry of what been said before:-D

  51. shery Avatar
    shery

    The only thing i can say is LOL

  52. SK Avatar
    SK

    a smart refu­ta­tion, bro. let us see what they’re going to say about this. divine” indeed.

Leave a Reply to PaakMaw Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *